Andrew: 0:10

welcome back everyone again to seeking season two. I am your host, andrew, along with my co-host, katherine. There she is, here. I am hello, right across the table from me.

Catherine: 0:25

I already talked about the rain.

Andrew: 0:30

Again, we're recording episodes back to back. So this is one of two episodes we're recording today. So shit's about to go down. Yes, it'll get bad. It's going to go downhill very fast, I'm afraid. So today, so again, this season of Seeking Season 2, which is Season 1 of Seeking Season 2, hopefully we don't get canceled. So the whole premise of Seeking Season 2, let me see how many times I can say Seeking Season 2. I don't think we can get canceled.

Catherine: 1:02

Like we'd have to make the decision to cancel ourselves.

Andrew: 1:05

Well, someone could cancel us, like if we did something awful Like what I don't know.

Catherine: 1:13

Like episode five, I was going to say like be a writer on Wonderfalls.

Andrew: 1:17

Oh my god. So anyway, if you haven't figured it out already, Seeking Season 2 covers seasons of TV shows that got canceled after. That doesn't make sense. Seeking.

Catherine: 1:38

Season 2 covers shows that only got one season Bingo. Therefore Seeking is second season yes and we will.

Andrew: 1:47

We will judge judge them worthy of a second season or not yeah, um, after these two I'm uh, I'm leaning in a in a specific direction wonderfalls. I can well, it's can see, we, we. So here's the thing, so as a viewer. So here's what happened with with Wonderfalls. Wonderfalls only aired four episodes and then it was canceled, apparently, except in Canada.

Andrew: 2:17

Apparently, apparently, some Canadian broadcast company, I think, bought the rights to it and aired all of them, aired all the episodes, but here in the us, we, only, we only saw the four.

Andrew: 2:26

However, I guess studio execs were probably privy to all the episodes and maybe knew what was coming, and and that's why they canceled it after after four, because when we're going to cover in this episode episode four of of falls, which is wound up penguin, and then next episode is episode five, so wound up penguin was the last one to air on television. Episode five is crime dog. That will be next episode, and it's starting to become evident why this got canceled, why they were canceled. Well, here's the thing, though we're we're looking again yeah, we're looking at it in in, in the lens of 2025. So I don't know. I don't know if that's coloring our judgment at all or or not, on why this was canceled, but I think, I think I think when we dive into these, we're going to talk about the writing and how, how erratic the writing is and how, um, I would say I don't say the writing is.

Andrew: 3:29

I don't want to say I don't want to be so judgy and say it was poor writing, but it was very inconsistent, yeah, and I think at the least, like we're obviously seeing a lot of things that we consider objectionable through a 2025 lens right a lot of that I still think I would have found objectionable then, um, maybe less so, but still objectionable, but I do think at this point it's, and it's not like the dialogue necessarily.

Catherine: 3:56

The dialogue is pithy, it's witty, it's. The interpersonal relationships are just so erratic. And I mean, I don't know if you want to jump into the episode, but the first thing I thought before this episode started was I thought Lee Pace was a main character. Why have we barely seen him this season?

Andrew: 4:20

Right, and then he's like majorly in this episode and the next one which is very strange because and we'll, we'll get to it talk a little bit, a little, we'll get to it. When we talk about the trivia of this episode. Okay, um, but some of the reasons why maybe the pacing between episode to episode is off and things like that, but I'll, I'll bring that up later. Okay, um, but yeah, let's dive in.

Catherine: 4:49

So this is episode four, which I think really was episode aired is episode three which makes even less sense, yeah, when you see the freaking chameleon in her trailer singing in episode three right, but he isn't actually introduced until episode four. Right the way they aired it.

Andrew: 5:08

Weird so that's. That's the whole thing, so I'll get to it later, but we'll talk about I I hate to spoil my own podcast, but we'll. We'll talk about the wound up, wound up penguin later. Okay, anyway, this episode directed again by Todd Holland who did a bunch of the episodes. Yep, liz Garcia was the writer. Okay, I thought I had some details in here about Liz Garcia, but I don't as a writer her credits include Dawson's Creek, wonder Falls and Cold Case. She was a co-producer on cold case.

Catherine: 5:45

Yeah, for for several seasons in 2010, she co-created the tnt series memphis beat starring jason lee. Never heard of it, uh yeah, but jason lee is a favorite of kevin smith's love jason.

Andrew: 5:56

Heard of him.

Catherine: 5:58

We've met jason lee my name is earl we held the door for jason lee and he complimented your sweater yeah, which was, I think.

Andrew: 6:05

I think they just said it was the 20th anniversary of my name. Is Earl oh really. Cause I followed Jason Lee on Instagram and he had he had like there is, there was a get together of the cast of my name is Earl and I think I think they said it's been um, I think it's been 20.

Catherine: 6:20

If I recall, correctly. Well, it looks like the last thing that happened with Liz Garcia is that she signed an overall deal with Entertainment One in 2021 and disappeared.

Andrew: 6:33

Interesting, I don't know. So there's that.

Catherine: 6:41

So nice knowing you, liz Garcia Nice knowing you, liz Garcia, what Nice knowing you.

Andrew: 6:49

Nice knowing you. Another TV show that got canceled, all because of you. Well, she did write technically the fourth episode. I mean I guess it was the aired third, but I blame Liz, I blame Liz Garcia, for that's just mean.

Catherine: 7:05

Okay, sorry liz, I apologize. She's definitely listening to this podcast ever listen to this episode.

Andrew: 7:11

I'm I'm so sorry, that's why we get canceled. See, this is this is this is why we get canceled. So anyway, um also starring guest. Starring carrie Preston.

Catherine: 7:23

Yay.

Andrew: 7:24

Love Carrie Preston.

Catherine: 7:26

Tell you you've got to watch Ellsbeth.

Andrew: 7:28

It's a great show, I know you keep telling me that I should Love it, I should watch Ellsbeth, and so I heart Carrie Preston, not only because she's a tremendous actress, but also because of who she's married to Michael Emerson, michael Emerson, ben Linus yes, the man and I loved them both in Person of Interest when they played love interests which was so cute.

Catherine: 7:50

He's on Elsbeth.

Andrew: 7:52

Is he on?

Catherine: 7:53

Elsbeth, yeah, the second season, and I cannot spoil it for you, don't? I love when they act against each other. It's great.

Andrew: 8:01

Just a quick question, without spoiling it does he play a bad guy? Yes he does Sweet. He was on that show Evil yes as well, which I I started watching. We started watching that together, I think.

Catherine: 8:13

I think so, yeah, and then just never, never.

Andrew: 8:16

I might have to get back to that.

Catherine: 8:28

Um, of them both. So so anyway, carrie preston stars as katrina. Yeah, katrina, the nun sister katrina, like that's ever been a thing, sister katrina. There was a lot of and and we can talk about this later, but one of my clearly not catholics.

Andrew: 8:34

Was there a clue in the catholic right?

Catherine: 8:36

misunderstanding of catholicism in general. I was like what's happening?

Andrew: 8:41

well, well, I loved when the father, which is Darren, right, yes, darren, and he's convincing her why Presbyterianism is better than Catholicism.

Catherine: 8:58

I literally in my notes, I have written down LOL, presbyterians versus Catholics.

Andrew: 9:05

It's amazing, it's just like a whole, like I have the down. Lol, presbyterians versus Catholics. It's amazing, it's just like a whole, like I have the law. So so this is one of my top three moments and I'll just say it right now when he goes Presbyterians cause cause he talks about when, when, when praying, you have to like go through the priest. You know you can't just talk like straight to God. And he goes Presbyterian prayers go straight to the source, right to JC.

Catherine: 9:25

And I was like why do they think that the mother said they have to go through a saint? I'm like no, that's not. Oh, my God.

Andrew: 9:34

Well, no, Well, well, here's the thing. Source many years of Catholic school. But here's the thing. That's probably, that's probably the extent of what Presbyterians know about Catholicism, Fair, so so maybe, maybe the writing is is on point for for what a Presbyterian knows about Catholicism. Good job, Liz Garcia.

Andrew: 9:52

Excellent job, Well played so anyway so let's so let's talk about the kind of synopsis of the episode. Yep, so Jay and bartender Eric Yep, so Jay and bartender Eric Yep From New Jersey, yes, which which I mean they've mentioned before, but I mean it. It starts to come to yeah, comes to fruition.

Catherine: 10:20

I just sorry, Is Laura texting you? I just, I just get the text.

Andrew: 10:24

I get the text from the couch. As a former Presbyterian, I knew very little about Catholicism.

Catherine: 10:29

Thank you for clarifying that. Thank you for confirming that, laura.

Andrew: 10:32

Thank you, now we know. See, now we've got the source. So, anyway, so kind of the synopsis of this episode. Jay and Eric are trying to find the woman, so they can do. They hear a noise Like what was it? What prompted them to look in the barrel?

Catherine: 10:51

Okay, so he was talking about how there were rats in the restaurant, because Eric is living in the restaurant Right and they hear a noise and then they think it's a rat. So they go look in the barrel. And it was a very good line. I didn't write it down, but I did think it was funny when she said, well, that's a really big rat because there's a person living in the barrel.

Andrew: 11:11

yes, so they discover someone living in the barrel, um, who, who busts out because they the the barrel rolls gets knocked over. Yeah, the person hiding the barrel runs out. And this is, I think, when, when does, when does jay get the message from the wound up penguin? Cause, that's, that's one of the things, cause I think they're going through her.

Catherine: 11:38

It's when they're going through her stuff.

Andrew: 11:39

They're going through her stuff, yeah, and then the the penguin says bring her back bring her back, yeah, and then that, that, that, that that grows to bring her back to him later. But bring her back is what the penguin says. And then there's a whole conversation that Eric and Jay have. So they go out trying to find this woman who they think is a runaway. They don't know her backstory, find out that she's a nun on the run. They think she's a nun on the run.

Catherine: 12:11

They think she's a junkie first. Oh, that's right, because I'm trying to remember what Jay said, and the way she pronounced it made me laugh. Well, she asked if she was freebasing in the barrel, but it was like the way she pronounced freebasing was like freebasing, it was wrong, and I was like this is a person who's never heard drug language before.

Andrew: 12:34

Right Well, has never free based before, apparently.

Catherine: 12:38

Well, I obviously have been freebasing all the time, and that's why I know how to pronounce it. Exactly I don't even know what freebasing is, ask Richard Pryor. Okay, he's dead.

Andrew: 12:50

Because he was freebasing. That's what almost killed him, by the way, he's dead Because he was freebasing. Oh God, that's what almost killed him, by the way. Really, look it up, so anyway.

Catherine: 12:58

I won't do that right now. I'll look it up later.

Andrew: 12:59

I as well, don't know what freebasing is. It has something to do with, I think cocaine. Sure, I think it's what it is. I think it's cocaine.

Catherine: 13:15

Now I have to look up, let's look up freebasing. I don't know, hey Siri, how do I freebase? You know, I use my personal phone for work, now too.

Andrew: 13:21

This reminds me of office space when they were looking up how to launder money. Money laundering how do I freebase?

Catherine: 13:29

Freebasing refers to a method of drug use primarily associated with cocaine that involves converting a drug from its hydrochloride salt form into its pure base form. Ooh, that's the base in freebasing. This process makes the drug smokable and more potent. And then it says freebasing drugs is extremely dangerous. Increased potency and addiction risk, health risks, including lung damage, heart problems, respiratory failure and increased risk of overdose and chemical hazards. They're highly flammable. And then free-bracing and crack cocaine. While initially distinct processes free-bracing cocaine and and crack cocaine While initially distinct processes freebasing cocaine and smoking crack cocaine have become largely interchangeable terms. Crack cocaine is a form of freebase cocaine produced using baking soda. It makes a crackling sound when heated, hence the name. Don't do drugs, kids. Well, don't do coke.

Andrew: 14:31

Don't do coke.

Catherine: 14:35

Everything else is fine. I I mean, you can smoke pot. I'll endorse smoking pot, I just don't there you go, I don't cook don't. Don't take the what I just found on on wikipedia and turn it into an excuse to freebase. No, please do not do that. There's only like four listeners of this podcast to begin with. I'd prefer not to kill one of them with.

Andrew: 14:53

No, please don't yeah, please don't do that, okay, all right, so I have no idea where we left, where we were prior to do you?

Catherine: 15:03

we were talking about how they found her in the barrel and they were talking about the rats and then the penguin um started talking when they were going through her stuff.

Andrew: 15:11

Bring her back. Yes, so that's where we were. So then Jay goes bring her back Right, and then Eric goes you want to bring her back?

Catherine: 15:21

Yeah.

Andrew: 15:22

And then it was like a whole thing, and then he was like he had this whole like moment of like oh, she's such a saint, right, you're a good person.

Catherine: 15:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's such a saint that, Right, you're a good person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it really brings out her being a bad person. Brings out the good person. That's inherently an Eric Right.

Andrew: 15:40

So the whole main plot is them. What she thinks is bringing Sister Katrina back to the priest or back to Back to God.

Catherine: 15:51

Back to God. Get her to go back to the convent that she. Back to God. The capital H, the convent that she ran away with.

Andrew: 15:55

Exactly so so that's her whole thing, right? So then she tries to. What was the? I'm trying to think of what she was. What was she trying to do to get sister Katrina to find religion again? I can't remember what it was.

Catherine: 16:11

Yeah, why am I suddenly blanking on that? Oh, wasn't it eventually to um, basically exercise the things that have been talking to jay?

Andrew: 16:21

oh, that's right. Yeah, because she she confessed. She confessed to um katrina that she was hearing the voices telling her to do things.

Catherine: 16:32

And she kind of I think Jay told her to kind of like make it proof that something exists, right, but of course Katrina goes immediately to demons. It's the devil, it's gotta be.

Andrew: 16:46

Satan, it's gotta be the devil, absolutely, could it?

Catherine: 16:50

be Satan. Yes, so it be Satan.

Andrew: 16:53

Yes, so then Katrina goes into the whole exorcism thing and yada, yada, yada and we go down that route. Now the so let's talk about that, so let's go into, let's go into this whole plot. Let's really, really. I mean we've kind of broken it down already. But yeah, again, it's the penguin, the wind up penguin, that's telling her to to bring her back. So Jay immediately assumes it's the nun bringing her back to G dash D.

Catherine: 17:31

Yeah, which was funny.

Andrew: 17:34

Okay, g-d, sure, sure, so, anyway. So Jay is trying to bring her back, finding some way to bring her back to God, to have her have this kind of religious moment. I mean, they think that she's a, they think she's a homeless person at first, but then and then they decide she's a prostitute.

Catherine: 17:58

She's a prostitute because of the priest who's chasing her the goth, the goth pimp, her goth pimp. I have that written down. Yes, same. And then my next question, and I have a very similar question about episode five. Yes, why is the priest such a dick? I don't know I did grow up Catholic and I have never met a priest who would talk to anyone the way this guy's like this is where they clearly have never met Catholic people.

Catherine: 18:26

I can, so here, here's the thing, so, so yeah, so, or they at least haven't met clergy, because a priest would not talk to someone like that.

Andrew: 18:37

No, there's a lot of stereotyping and for comedy purposes I can see why you might stereotype someone, but he doesn't really fit the stereotype of a caring priest. No, which is who I would think you would be. But here's the thing I've met mean priests but I haven't met is who I would think you would be, and there I.

Catherine: 18:52

But here's the thing I've met mean priests, but I haven't met a priest I would describe as a dick.

Andrew: 18:57

But remember, remember, he said at one point he had a lot of transgressions in his past. Sure, because he wasn't always on the priestly path, sure. So maybe he's just a little bit harder than than a lot of people that have grown up going to college and going right into the seminary and he was a straight dick.

Catherine: 19:17

It was a hundred percent asshole behavior.

Andrew: 19:21

I agree. I'm just saying, maybe that maybe that's why, maybe that's why they wrote him that way.

Catherine: 19:26

I think it's more to do with. I've never met a priest or a nun, so let's go with this. You know there was the requisite. Nuns are scary joke which, having grown up Catholic yes they are. Oh, there we have it. I mean there are one or two that I've liked in my time, but for the most part nuns are terrifying. Like, honestly, sister Katrina was way nicer than she should have been.

Andrew: 19:51

Sister Katrina was a very naive, I think, and I really want to get into this because this is having grown up in the church and been indoctrinated in all that religious fanfare yes, that religious fanfare. It's very interesting that Katrina said God had never spoken to her and she said at some point God doesn't speak to people. And I think that's when Jay opened up about the inanimate objects speaking to her, because she said maybe it's God, maybe it's something else, but something speaks to me yeah and I I found it fascinating.

Andrew: 20:37

I mean, I don't think whether whether you believe in god, a higher power, or or just or just are spiritual or or or non-religious entirely, I mean I think I think things definitely speak to people. So I don't, I find it hard to believe that nothing has spoken to Katrina in her life. Like I feel like I feel like a lot of things have spoken to me, just just being out in nature, yeah.

Andrew: 21:08

Like it's just sometimes a. A I don't want to say religious experience, but like a, a spiritual experience and I mean mine is is much closer to like an actual religious experience.

Catherine: 21:21

But I remember while I was in college and I did go to a jesuit college I remember, not all the time but being in the chapel and just feeling like the wonder of that community of everybody being together for a common thing. It was very like there was definitely something that spoke to me in that. But no, I mean, do I think God is like whispering in people's ears? No, he's not texting.

Andrew: 21:50

Right. So I mean, like, mean, like, how do you like? I guess maybe she just doesn't feel like she's, she has a calling, but I mean again. I mean I've been to live concerts. Um, I would, I would dare say that you two at the sphere was it was a was a near religious experience for me um Sedona for me.

Andrew: 22:13

Sedona, you know, going to an art museum and just standing in front of an amazing painting and trying to figure out how somebody's mind saw that and was able to translate that onto a canvas, like there's so many different things that speak to people, many different things that that, that get that that speak to people. Um, I just found it kind of sad, a sad commentary that like nothing. I mean, maybe she was hoping for something more concrete and was missing a lot of the other signs out there that were actually speaking to her.

Catherine: 22:48

But it's like I think, even when she's talking about how much she loves the convent, that in itself is like Right. That kind of that community, exactly it's the reason I think you become a nun.

Andrew: 23:05

Right, or you get the habit and it lets you fly. I mean because that's.

Catherine: 23:11

I think that's only if you're Sally Field, right, yeah, man.

Andrew: 23:15

I know I would totally become a nun if I could fly that would be Fairly certain you do not meet the criteria. Nope, no, I do not, oh boy, so anyway. No, I do not, oh boy, so so anyway. So the the deep, the deep dive then at the end of this whole narrative is it really wasn't bring her to him, katrina, to, um, to god it, it was, it was we, we find out in the end again, father Schofield, who had this, this, this past, comes to find out that he had a child.

Andrew: 24:01

Yep, and because it was, it was the whole thing about when, um, um, was it the wind-up? No, it was the lion. The lion told her to break the taillight.

Catherine: 24:12

Yep.

Andrew: 24:14

And her car rolled into the car, broke the taillight. It was Father Schofield's car. Then he got pulled over by a cop for having a taillight out, found out that he was being there was like a warrant for unpaid child support or whatever.

Catherine: 24:30

He was a deadbeat dad. Yeah, it was the woman trying to find him because she didn't know where to yeah, so she was.

Andrew: 24:37

She was just looking in in all the wrong places for father scofield, which I find odd. Like how do you, how do you not find somebody? It's not like he was unfindable, it wasn't like he was under operating under an assumed name yeah, and I mean nuns may take a different name.

Catherine: 24:53

They don't always, but they can um, but priests don't they would keep the same right name.

Andrew: 24:59

So I thought that was yeah, well, but it's also the early 2000s.

Catherine: 25:03

Okay, fair, so it's not like you had, you know, white page. Well, I guess you did have whitepagescom, but it probably wasn't as good as it is now right. He might have just been harder to find, true. Yeah, Well, I mean, cause I guess we don't know where they where they came from Right Cause they were getting back on a train, but we don't know where to Right.

Catherine: 25:23

I did think that was interesting, that you're at the Niagara Falls train station and they're like New Jersey Hoboken. I'm like New Jersey Hoboken, I'm like absolutely not no, no, no, start with Patterson. Yeah, absolutely not. Okay, so there we have even just research train lines Like my God like to just do a little basic research, research goes right from Patterson to Hoboken. Like obviously, clearly, well, and from Niagara Falls to anywhere in this area, the only place you would be able to go and you'd probably have to change trains is New York city.

Andrew: 25:56

You go to New York city. Well cause, then it would drop in Newark Penn station. Yes, so it'd be New York no they didn't say of all the places, no it's not Newark, cause that's, that's, I think that's Amtrak. Well, has a bunch of stops, but yeah, I mean, those are the, those are the main stops. Is new york city um newark?

Catherine: 26:14

and philly yep, so just bad writing again, just sloppy, sloppy yeah not even bad, right?

Andrew: 26:22

I mean, they didn't even do the research, yeah, just none, it's just bad.

Catherine: 26:25

They were just like what are cities in new jersey right exactly?

Andrew: 26:28

let's, let's look at the globe, see what cities we can find and put them in the script. Oh my god, so that's the main plot to this I found. Do you have any other notes on?

Andrew: 26:44

not on the main one now so the subplot for me is really this kind of I don't want to say it was feelings of guilt, but Eric the bartender and his interactions with um father Schofield, which I thought was really interesting because he has this um, why I think he's starting to have true feelings for Jay, yeah, so I think that's, I think that's what's kind of, what kind of started this. And then he was like, well, what about my marriage? And I don't think it was a feeling of guilt, but I think it was. You know that's over, but have I really closed that chapter in my life? And then he talks about forgiveness and if I forgive her, does that mean I'm going back to her? Yeah, and father scofield makes that, makes the good point just because you forgive somebody doesn't mean you, you continue on with that right that person um, he wants someone to tell him the answer and that's just simply not going to happen.

Andrew: 27:48

No, but I I thought it was, I thought I honestly thought it was a really great scene. Yeah, the two of them in the bathroom stalls, yeah, which is the vision of kind of the confessional, the makeshift confessional.

Catherine: 28:01

So I thought the visual aspect of it was I did like that yeah.

Andrew: 28:04

That I thought was really good, one of the highlights I think of. I think the subplot was really for me a highlight of this episode. Yeah, I think the subplot was really for me a highlight of this episode. Yeah, really digging deep into relationships and understanding. You know, every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end, and well, you know why. So remember, that's how this whole episode started, right, because they were singing 99 Bottles of Beer on a Wall, yeah. And then she goes to the bar and he says you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

Andrew: 28:43

Oh, semi-sonic closing time. Thank you See, I tied that all up in a nice little bow, very nice, nice little bow.

Catherine: 28:49

Can we talk about one more thing, let's please? Uh, lee pace, because lee pace suddenly is a character. I know lee pace.

Andrew: 28:57

I guess we could talk about how attractive lee paces was it this episode or the other episode where his shirt was largely unbuttoned?

Catherine: 29:04

I think it was the next one, wasn't it? Where they go to canada?

Andrew: 29:07

yeah, like yeah, I'm like, I like Lee he's got his like, he's like he's like hanging out with like barely a button shirt on. I'm like what are you doing, dude?

Catherine: 29:19

But it's like suddenly and I'm assuming that somewhere in the trivia you're going to say that he was filming something else and that's why no, oh, really no Interesting, I have none of that in the trivia. So all of a sudden, jay has this great relationship with her brother Right, and she's talking about oh, he has all these theology degrees and blah, blah, blah, and that's the first thing she tries is having him talk to Katrina Right, but apparently doesn't tell him that she's a Catholic nun, ex-nun.

Andrew: 29:52

As.

Catherine: 29:52

Katrina likes to point out and does lead me to one of my favorite quotes from the mother, who I still can't stand, which is you do know, nuns are Catholic Duh.

Andrew: 30:04

Yes.

Catherine: 30:05

Yeah, so I mean it starts to carry through to the next episode that Jay and Aaron have this like good relationship that we've literally just never seen before. I I.

Andrew: 30:18

The early episodes lead you to believe that she has no relationship with her, correct?

Catherine: 30:23

so it's weird now, all of a sudden, buddy and now, all of a sudden, she's showing up at the house and having breakfast with them and asking aaron help. And the other thing that they've started to do and I think it's more in the next episode than this one I don't understand why in the beginning they did this whole thing where, like, she and Sharon were bonding, and now they're tearing the two of them apart, like they've made it a contentious relationship.

Andrew: 30:47

I think I have an explanation for this, so this, am I right?

Catherine: 30:54

Is that the answer?

Andrew: 30:57

Wow, you said it, not me. That's why I did it. No, so here's the whole thing. Here was one of my pieces of trivia. This episode was the last one filmed, okay, so I think a lot of this character development yeah may happen throughout the season. Yeah, even though this one was the last, because this one was the last one filmed. So you're seeing, you're seeing developed characters yeah but not.

Catherine: 31:26

But this one is placed fourth and not at the end of the season, but but I still think they should have a better relationship, she and the sister See, based on what they did early on but you don't know what happens in between.

Andrew: 31:39

Maybe something happens in between that causes this.

Catherine: 31:42

They just seem to want Jay to be snarky and right I don't know.

Andrew: 31:48

There's no consistency whatsoever in the writing no that is that that. I think it's frustrating that in the writing no, that is.

Catherine: 31:53

I think we have it's frustrating that we have established.

Andrew: 31:55

Yeah, all right, so let's go back and let's talk about our top three favorite moments. Okay, we've already talked about some of them, but Okay, so yeah, I mean.

Catherine: 32:04

Talk to me my first one was her goth pimp, so we've talked about that. The goth pimp pimp, um, coming in like I'm the man in black. I did also enjoy johnny cash um to become a to, to, to become a freebasing addict and then a prostitute. All it takes is one bad day. I was like, okay, that's funny, um. And then uh, the when the dick priest tells her it's holy water, not magic.

Andrew: 32:31

Water, not magic water, not magic water. Yeah, nice.

Catherine: 32:34

And then the Presbyterians versus Catholics. That whole scene was just hilarious to me, and it's like Amazing. Inanity.

Andrew: 32:41

Yes, I love those, so some of mine were. I just loved, I loved the opening of all the muses taunting her, I did too, with 99 bottles of beer.

Catherine: 32:52

But here's the thing. I thought it was funny. Here's the thing.

Andrew: 32:54

Notice when they start, they're already at like 89 bottles of beer in a row.

Catherine: 32:59

She's been ignoring them for 10.

Andrew: 33:00

She's been ignoring them for near 10 bottles of beer. I'm like, oh my God, how are you not going crazy yet?

Catherine: 33:07

And I do have in my notes the question why have the in my notes? The question, why is she keeping all of them? Right, she could have returned to the bookend, to the psychiatrist um, she's got the chameleon, she's got the wax lion, and she takes the wax lion with her all over the place I, I think it's fear that something might happen.

Andrew: 33:23

Yeah, if, if she doesn't like, keep them. Yeah, um, that that's my fear. Yeah, um, so, so, yeah, I find that interesting. I loved when Eric is talking about, when he's recollecting the Katrina, the homeless woman whatever they don't know what she is yet because she had ordered food in the restaurant and he goes. I remember her. She ordered a side of cheese. She didn't even eat it, just stared at it.

Catherine: 34:01

And then, when they finally meet her, she's like waxing rhapsodic about cheese.

Andrew: 34:07

Well, that was her religious moment when she like, the world is bigger than just her like yes even even in the smallest, most mundane things, such as cheese.

Andrew: 34:17

There, there's a lot of beauty in it, which is which is an interesting, interesting nugget in this, in this episode. Um, but yes and again, my last one is just just the comment in the whole Presbyterian versus Catholic conversation, like I said, presbyterian prayers go right to the source, or Presbyterian prayers go straight to the source, right to JC, right to JC, right to JC. My dad, joseph Charles, indeed. So those are some of my my moments, like I said. So let's talk about what worked and what didn't work.

Catherine: 35:00

I think we've done a lot of that already.

Andrew: 35:02

I know, is there anything else that we haven't touched upon? Like I said, for me what worked was the, the confessional bathroom. That I thought was really a solid piece of writing. Solid piece of writing. The cinematography, like the camera angle, I thought was really good. It set it all up really nicely and that was a good moment for Father Schofield. I mean, that was him actually being a good priest.

Catherine: 35:38

Doing what he's supposed to do.

Andrew: 35:40

Doing what he's supposed to do. So everything I think fell right into place for that scene. So for me that's probably about the only thing that worked in the whole thing.

Catherine: 35:53

One of the things I was thinking about as I was driving here is the fact that this episode and then the next episode, they're not in the gift shop at all. No, that bothers me. There's something grounding about the foundation of the gift shop.

Andrew: 36:11

There's a lot of things, so there's a couple things. Mouth breather is not there, right. Tracy toms is not there in the restaurant yeah so it's, it's like they they like dropped some of these secondary characters to to focus more on on the development of the family. So it's like they've zeroed in on Eric and Jay's relationship and Jay's relationship with her family.

Catherine: 36:33

Yeah.

Andrew: 36:34

And have kind of cut off some more of the humor of the store and the Tracy Toms character which I again being the only minority on the show, they got rid of her pretty quickly.

Catherine: 36:49

Well, and I just I don't know. You know like the whole thing is called Wonder Falls. It's named after the gift shop she works in, and now we're completely out of her pretty quickly. Well, and I just I don't know. You know like the whole thing is called Wonderfalls. It's named after the gift shop she works in, and now we're completely out of the gift shop.

Andrew: 36:57

Yes, exactly, you know. No, I completely agree.

Catherine: 37:03

The other thing I was going to mention and I'm not remembering his name now the executive producer, the guy from Buffy. Oh, I know who you're talking about because I also got his song from once more with feeling wrong.

Andrew: 37:20

he wasn't in he wasn't the one here thank you.

Catherine: 37:23

He was the one who was one of the anchors in dr horrible, oh so I was mixing up my musicals. Got it, my joss Whedon musicals.

Andrew: 37:33

Excellent Got it.

Catherine: 37:35

But what I was thinking about with him? He has obviously helmed some truly quality TV, right, yes, and then this Right. Could we do nothing here? You know, it's interesting.

Andrew: 37:51

You know, someone has a hit and then they struggle to find find their footing after that, um, so. So there's some of that, I guess, um, someone. Here's some of my other, because I had some other notes here, um, which I thought were really just other little funny things. So, obviously, eric, it's revealed that Eric lives in the bar. So, he's, he's, he's getting there, he's living there because he got kicked out of the hotel because he told him he wouldn't sue.

Andrew: 38:23

So when they found out he wasn't going to sue, they kicked him out of the hotel.

Catherine: 38:25

Yep.

Andrew: 38:26

Um, what I also loved just here's this I don't know if you'd call this a piece of trivia, but if you remember, when the barrel falls over, it starts rolling toward them, which I thought was a nice little Indiana Jones moment.

Catherine: 38:41

Yeah, that was cute.

Andrew: 38:42

I'm like, okay, that was a nice little call out to running away from the rolling boulder.

Catherine: 38:48

I might be getting Tim and Nia wrong again too. By the way, again, I'm very confused. Okay, yeah, just cut that part out about the Dr Horrible. I don't think that was him.

Andrew: 38:59

No.

Catherine: 38:59

No, I think I'm wrong. Who was it? I don't know. That's why I'm getting confused. Okay, so let's look this up, all right.

Andrew: 39:08

All right Dr Horrible. All right After Horrible Sing Along. Cast Because I know Marty Noxon's in it, david.

Catherine: 39:26

Fury was the newsman David Fury, thank you Was the newsman, that's who I'm thinking.

Andrew: 39:29

Okay, so who's Tim Minear?

Catherine: 39:34

I don't think he was in it.

Andrew: 39:36

Was he in anything.

Catherine: 39:37

Well, I mean, he was the executive producer of Angel Right, but I don't think he was in anything.

Andrew: 39:42

He wasn't even in. Once More with Feeling, I don't think so.

Catherine: 39:50

No, because he came in for Angel Angel. Yeah, he was all I think it was also david fury as well it was. So I've mixed up tim muneer and david fury excellent now, now we got that now we're clarified excellent.

Andrew: 40:12

yes, thank you. Like butter. Um, Okay, so, yeah. So again other moments that I loved. I loved the comment I can't remember who said it If Johnny Cash had been born Irish, his music would have been more lilting.

Catherine: 40:31

Yeah, it was the guy at the train station who told them about the.

Andrew: 40:38

Oh, it was the janitor.

Catherine: 40:39

Yeah, the guy in black.

Andrew: 40:41

Yeah, yeah, she's a prostitute and he's her goth pimp. That I thought was just the man in black. And then I thought this was interesting, so creative, creative non-permanence they were they were talking about. They were talking about this kind of when they were. They broke in or they they. They rented the hotel motel room next to father Schofield and we're listening on the wall, so they're like they're up close next to each other, yeah, and they're talking about this whole thing about having a relationship with non-permanence. And then she's like one of them is like hot plates and kitchenettes.

Andrew: 41:29

Because, they're talking about the motel room. This is a place for non-permanence. It's not where someone lives, which I thought was just interesting because they were talking about them. They're alluding to their, like, having a relationship that was non-permanent. Um, because they're they're clearly attracted to each other. They almost kiss, yeah in the in the motel room, um, and then they don't.

Catherine: 41:56

Well, because they hear Sister Katrina and Father Schofield fighting, yeah.

Andrew: 42:04

And then there was also I don't know if you picked up on this there was this reference about Agnes of God. Yes, when they said is Father Schofield going to Agnes of God? Her Right. So I had to look this up because I'm like, okay, what is this a reference to? So Agnes of God is a 1979 play by American playwright John Pielmeier. Tells the story of a novice nun who gives birth but does not believe she has. After the child is found dead, the psychiatrist and the mother superior of the convent clash during the resulting investigation. The title is a pun on the Latin phrase Agnes Dei, lamb of God.

Andrew: 42:46

So that's the whole kind of. So it's a. The reference to Agnes of God is when an innocent or naive person involved in a situation that's much darker or more complex than it seems. So that's kind of what they're talking about when she says is he Agnes of God-ing her Right Again, like I said earlier, she's an innocent, naive, kind of nun and they're thinking maybe he's doing something more devious or sinister.

Andrew: 43:17

So that was the Agnes of God reference and, interestingly enough, oh yeah, so they made it just as an aside, they made it into a film in 1985, starring Jane Fonda, anne Bancroft and Meg Tilly. Yeah, that's quite a cast, quite a cast, quite a cast. I think Meg Tilly was the nun Agnes, I think Jane Fonda was the psychiatrist and Anne Bancroft played Mother Superior. The play is just those three characters and I think they're on stage the whole time, or at least Mother Superior is. I did, obviously, obviously, a deep dive. I went down this rabbit hole of what is Agnes of God. I had to find out because I thought it was an interesting reference in there that not everybody would get. And speaking of references, and this is the last thing I'll say about this episode, nope, that's the next episode, never mind, alright then cut that I'll say about this episode Nope.

Catherine: 44:18

That's the next episode.

Andrew: 44:19

Okay, never mind All right then, cut that, so, anyway. So that's, that's all about all I have to say. Do you have anything to to add on this particular episode?

Catherine: 44:30

No, I think I'm good.

Andrew: 44:31

Do we give this? Do we give this a thumbs up or a thumbs down, or a sideways thumb? What's?

Catherine: 44:36

the, the. Where are we? Sideways, sideways, thumb yeah it wasn't.

Andrew: 44:41

It wasn't as troublesome as as one of the previous episodes we talked about, yeah, um, nor was it one of the better agreed episodes. So, yeah, I would say a sideways.

Catherine: 44:52

Yeah, some nice character development, um, and some funny lines. I mean, it does. It does occasionally do things well yeah yeah, I'd say this is a sideways.

Andrew: 45:03

It's a it's hit or miss, it's.

Catherine: 45:05

It's very inconsistent agreed so that that's where we stand on the wound up penguin, episode four can we talk quickly about the fact that ben that Benedict Cumberbatch can't say penguin?

Andrew: 45:18

Penwin. He says Penwin right, he says it like five different ways If you listen to that clip.

Catherine: 45:23

It's Pingwing, it's Pinwin.

Andrew: 45:27

It's Penwin Penwin. That's the one I remember, penwin Penwin. Yeah, I'm like what? Exactly, exactly.

Catherine: 45:33

So Benedict Cumberbatch can't say penguin.

Andrew: 45:37

That's how we're ending this episode. Thank you for joining us today thank you everyone for for joining us for another fantastic episode of seeking season two. Where we talk about this season is wonder falls, and this was episode four. Wound up penguin. Next up episode five is crime dog. So stay tuned for Crime Dog coming up in a couple weeks and we'll see you then.

Catherine: 46:01

I'll see Andrew in about three seconds because we're recording it now.

Andrew: 46:05

That's right, we're recording it now, but you have to wait two weeks.

Catherine: 46:08

Ha ha, all three of you, because we killed one with the Free Basic.

Andrew: 46:14

Sorry to you and your family, but thank you to the other three still listening. We love you.

Catherine: 46:21

You're our best friends. Bye, bye.